Dr. Hassan Abbas (NESA Center) and Dr. William Lawrence (American University) interviewed award-winning author John Kiser. Kiser wrote two widely acclaimed books covering historical and interfaith topics. Commander of the Faithful recounts the story of Emir Abdelkader, a statesman and scholar who later spearheaded the saving of thousands of Christians from a massacre in Damascus and whose humane treatment of French prisoners inspired the Geneva Conventions. In 1883, the New York Times hailed the Emir as one of the “ablest sovereigns” of the 19^th century. Kiser’s previous book on the massacre in Algeria, The Monks of Tibhirine, was the basis of the widely acclaimed film Of Gods and Men.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dr. Abbas: There’s an idiom in Urdu and Persian that says “You don’t truly know a person until you have travelled with them, eaten with them and slept under the same roof.” I’ve done all three with my friend Dr. Lawrence during various NESA seminars around the globe. I’m very grateful to him for bringing us together. Thank you for your visit to NESA at National Defense University for this conversation. Since our last meeting, I reviewed your work. I’m not seeing many people similar to you, people who are really invested in interfaith. If we can start from that, why did it first come to your mind that interfaith dialogue, both Christian-Muslim and beyond, is important?

Kiser: Actually, yours is a slight misreading of my views, as I have never been particularly interested in interfaith. Interfaith is a delineation that can create problems. My interest is in interhuman relations. I want to know how you behave towards others regardless of faith. Do you treat others decently? I went to a New England boarding school whose headmaster was Jack Crocker. At graduation in 1961, one of the things he said at his farewell resonated with me: “What is a Groton School education about? In my day it was about producing a decent fellow.” Religion can be decent. Religion can also complicate things. It may be good to behave religiously. But if it doesn’t translate to decency… I’m open to whatever you say. Maybe I’ll agree, maybe not. But what is most important is how you think about and treat others.

Abbas: You wrote a widely read book on Emir Abdelkader. What do you think inspired him? Especially being a resistance leader, and ultimately surrendering on negotiated terms. What would you like readers or those who you want to read the book to know? Especially our NESA and NDU audience, military, law enforcement, and intelligence officers.

Kiser:  Part of the Emir’s mandate was to do good. And to preach the Word. He had Unitarian, Sufi view of the world. Each of us knows God in some ways and are ignorant in others. Emir Abdelkader from his upbringing, education, and travel had a very broad aperture to the world. He had his father to thank for that. He lived by the rules as he understood them. The Koran speaks about the treatment of prisoners. The French soldiers he captured were treated equally with his fighters in terms of rations. You treat prisoners with respect; you don’t kill them. Emir Abdelkader had high standards. You don’t divide the world into good people and bad. You study and follow the teachings.

Abbas: Are there any other lessons from these books for military or insurgent leaders?

Kiser: First of all, as his father’s son, he fought the best he could against the French and still maintained his humanity. After many years of struggle, in 1838 he negotiated a temporary treaty to spare lives. He wanted no further bloodshed. He was also always trying to figure out both what his father wanted him to do, and, at the same time, how to have open arms. To treat people correctly, particularly prisoners of war. Abdelkader sees only one humanity.

Abbas: Do you have any thoughts on how his views developed, on what inspired him to go for things not initially popular, but humane? What about his views on Christianity?

Kiser: If you’re a Christian, a Jew, a Muslim, or a Buddhist, and you live your faith and its entirety, your faith requires you to respect the other. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.” Abdelkader didn’t invent this. He just read the [holy] book more carefully. I’m sure there are Christians, Muslims, and Jews who have done the same thing, except they didn’t get as much attention. Because of the nature of what Emir did, putting his own life at risk, being an outstanding horseman and fighter, and having this non-complaining response to all the bad treatment that he received for years in French captivity. He won friends all over the world. President Lincoln sent two pistols to thank him for playing an important role in saving thousands of lives in Damascus. He became a hero of humanity.

Abbas: Tell us about the 10-year effort to write these two books. What inspired you?

Kiser: Commander of the Faithful flowed naturally from the Monks of Tibhirine book. The monks’ story spoke to my own feeling that I would like to lead my life in a more God-conscious way. There are a lot of riches in Christianity and in Islam. It was a form of self-improvement.

Abbas: Tell me more about your background, whether from your parents, or the place you grew up in, where else did this come from?

Kiser: I grew up in Chicago. I came from a successful family of bicycle builders and pig farmers. I was mainly driven, after graduating from Groton, with Crocker’s words ringing in my ear to lead a life that was interesting, challenging, and expanded my horizons. I was motivated to do something different. Thanks to my father, I went and worked summers in the oil fields. I worked with guys in Wyoming who were surveying lines. I was working with different kinds of people, seeing the way they lived, the way they thought, challenging myself to work in 105-degree heat in the summer in Louisiana. I was trying to live a life that was not boring. After building a Russian American technology brokering business in Washington DC for two decades, I moved my family to France. It was also the 1990s, and things had gotten pretty ugly in Algeria. I wanted to learn what was going on there.

Abbas: So, the book started off with your interest in French Algeria?

Kiser: No, my wife and I thought it would be good to expose our kids to a new culture. I had studied French in college, and I wanted to expose my kids, my wife. There was a wonderful Catholic priest near Nice, France, named Father Antoine Costa. He had been a soldier in Algeria. He was a profoundly deep man who helped me work my way through questions I had about the Christian religion. He became my first spiritual teacher. I read about the massacre of the French monks in Tibhirine. It was a monastic order that had been living about an hour’s drive from Algiers. There was an uproar over the massacre of the monks. The biggest uproar came from Muslims horrified by what was done in the name of Islam. There was an Islamist group, the GIA, that claimed responsibility while the vast majority of Muslims would say that this was not Islam. I wanted to learn more about Algeria and the monks, who they were and why they were beloved. When I was learning about the monks, I noticed a picture, a face scratched into a rock in the mountains. I was told was Emir Abdelkader. Having finished writing about the monks, it was an excuse to go back and write a follow-up story about the Emir and what he represented. Over a 10-year period, I was absorbed in researching and writing the two books.

Abbas: People like you who have a global perspective, who are ready to go out and pick a subject like the monks and find it so powerful that it’s worth writing about it, do we have enough of this in our education system and our political system? Is it still happening or, if not, what do we need to do to have more people who are bridge-builders?

Kiser: Well, I mean, we’ve had organizations like the Peace Corps. There are elements in our society that recognize the importance of getting beyond our boundaries. With technology available and the shrinking of the world, going to places is not difficult to do if you want. But there’s still a kind of, “We’re the best. We’re here to save the world. Why do we need to learn about other cultures?” There was that wonderful quote by [Marine Corps Lieutenant General] Chesty Puller…

Abbas: [Reading]  “We’ll have to get over the idea that we are the greatest people on earth.” What were the responses to the books? What was the response from Muslims?

Kiser: Both books were well received. The books were not just about Trappist monks or the Emir. They were whole life presentations. As for Muslims, we got a lot of responses from all around the globe. Many were Algerians living in France or Scandinavia or elsewhere. There were also Pakistanis. One of my biggest champions was [interfaith leader] Sayyid Sayeed. One of the things Sayyid said to me in an email that made me scratch my head for a while was, “Carry on, Christian soldier. We Muslims will follow you.” I asked him what he meant. He said, “We like good Christians, and you’re behaving like a good Christian.” I took the compliment, but I hadn’t thought of myself as a good Christian. Also, the “We Muslims will follow you” was a bold statement, but now I understand what the Emir book represents. It’s a gift to the Muslim world, but also the non-Muslim world. Muslims seek to do God’s will and obedience to a higher power.

Abbas: Final thoughts?

Kiser: I recently gave a talk on decency. People liked it because decency is not a religion. It’s a behavior. Respect is an attitude that you carry with you no matter who you’re dealing with. That can be either religiously driven or just common sense. Is religion the key element on whether you’re going to get along? It could be, or not. I once talked with one of the top scientists in Czechoslovakia Otto Wichterle* who said, “You know, for me, my religion is decency.” People may have different ideas of what decency entails, and you can say the same about what people think Christianity entails. If you’re decent, you give everyone a chance, to determine whether your preconceptions are right or not. Whether they’re going to lead you into trouble, or whether they’ll help you apprise a situation. When in doubt, be decent.

Hassan Abbas is a Distinguished Professor of International Relations at the Near East South Asia Center for Strategic Studies at the National Defense University. His classmate from Tufts University’s Fletcher School of Law and Diplomacy, Dr. William Lawrence, is the North Africa Area Studies Director at the National Council on U.S.-Arab Relations and a Professor of Political Science and International Affairs at American University. He recorded and co-edited the interview. The National Council’s Sarah Soussi assisted with the transcription.